Thuum.org

A community for the dragon language of The Elder Scrolls V: Skyrim

Thuum.org

A community for the dragon language of The Elder Scrolls V: Skyrim

My Opinion

 1 

Mirkrilaar
April 7, 2016

     First of all, as a disclaimer, I am and always will be loyal to our administrator, Paarthurnax no matter where the site may go. 

     As of 13JUL15 (July 13th, 2015), I am a Sailor in the United States Navy. When I left for boot camp, I had the uttermost confidence that Paarthurnax would hire someone else to help deal with all of the submissions and work around the site. When he chose Liis as a moderator, I was surprised, but not disappointed. I have put in a good word for DKZ because of what he has done to help me behind the curtains. Revealing a couple of glitches are some good examples. As for Liis being a Moderator, I have absolutely no problem with it! He's doing a great job!

    The first thing that I notice once I got back on this site was obvious: The Background. The previous background that we've had has a good balance between black and white, and color. The background was dull enough that it did not take your attention away from the work you were doing and it was also colorful enough so that it looked pleasing to the eye. As of the current background, I feel that it had more color and grabs more attention than the one that we had previously. On top of that, I actually had to look up what the artwork was. I never was a fan of concept artwork, when obviously, you can have images of the actual game. The new background that I have chosen for the site a couple years ago has gotten little to no attention from anyone.

http://www.twentysidedblog.com/wp-content/uploads/2014/08/Skyrim-Without-ELFX-1024x576.jpg

    I even used this artwork as the background for my G-mail account. I feel that this artwork is absolutely perfect for the site! It is dark enough to where it doesn't grab that much attention, it has enough color so that it attracts the eye and it also fits the theme of High Hrothgar, which I have always associated this site with.

     The next thing that I have noticed is that the recent ideas that the members have implemented such as Featured Words/Members aren't commonplace anymore. My conclusion is that Paarthurnax is too busy with work to have enough time to do this,  which is completely understandable! We all have lives outside the site.

     Now brings me to the topic that has fueled the most controversy: The Wall. When I graduated boot camp on 04SEP15 (Sept 4th, 2015), I bought my first smartphone and a laptop so that I could keep in touch and to be able to communicate with the site again. When I left for boot camp, I had a warm and heartfelt 'goodbye'. When I returned, there was barely a celebration that I received. That was a slightly disappointing moment, but I kept my spirits high in hopes of the future. I thought that the site would not have changed too much since I left. After all, it was only perhaps 3 months. Sadly....I was wrong. I felt as if members were hostile and cold hearted. Several people were now spamming he Wall, being disrespectful and just plain rude. The site had a different vibe to it. I felt safe on the site before I left. It was the place I could go when I was lonely and in pain. No one judged or was mean. Everyone liked you for who you were! When I felt that the site was no longer safe, I did not know where to turn. I went into a depression-like state. Seeing the chat log was very disappointing. People saying profanity as an insult, spamming and even threats. As a Moderator, I felt as though I should be respected, not as a person, but only for my rank. As a comparison, it is like saying to a police officer that 'You need to earn my respect'. That does not work! I shouldn't have to earn it, nor do I think that it should be handed to me. I got Moderator because of 9 months of hard work and this is how I am repaid? And then there was the 'revolution' attempt. Despite everyone's beliefs, (Loniizrath mostly), I am NOT "Swingy with the banhammer"! I will tell everyone the truth right here if it helps. I am more bark than bite. I have a large patience and will try my best to stop someone using words alone. Apparently, no one took me seriously and saw that I was weak. That was when I had to use force. Did I like to do it? NOT AT ALL! To be honest, I hated to do it, but I did what I had to do to try to maintain order. How I do things such as that, is I ask Paarthurnax for advice or approval. As time went on, I felt as though the site was slightly out of control. Liis, who was a great help in all of this when I was not there by the way, definitely helped try to maintain order. But sadly, Paarthurnax felt as though it was not enough. The site wore his patience thin, which made me disappointed and upset. So, as a final 'nail in the coffin', he made it a rule that the Community Wall was for "Elder Scrolls or site discussion only" and it was to be "strictly enforced". While I am loyal to him and his decisions, I do feel strongly that this was too much. Over the last few months, I have missed the site and what it used to be. I remember all of the good times that everyone had on there. For the problems? Spammers are a phase. Eventually, they will all get banned and be forced to move on. With harassment? I feel that this needs to be monitored better. As for the Wall itself, I think I speak for everyone when I say that the old Wall needs to be brought back. Do I think I am going to change minds? Not at all! I am just wanting to express my opinion on the site.

     The last topic I would like to point out, is the massive overhaul and changes to the dictionary, to the way words are reviewed and the translator. Over the last few years, I have made over 287 words to the dovahzul dictionary! I surpassed my goal of having the second most amount of words translated, (with Morovahdin being my goal). They range from Semi-Canon, all the way to Modern. The addition of the Modern dictionary was a great change for the site, as it allowed us to create far more words than there had been and to also expand the dictionary greatly, even marking the achievements of over 5,000 words, which I had the distinct honor of after submitting a word for "bubbly". However, with the new dictionary in place, the new dictionary has massively shrunk to only about 1,991 words. To me, this is confusing and greatly disappointing. I find it confusing, because of the way everything is now organized. But the greatest feeling of all for me was a disappointment. I felt as though all of my hard word, all of my words that I had created. All the time I spent trying to do them, went to waste. I'm sure that others may feel the same way that I do. Yes, the words are there, but I feel as if they are all labeled as 'unreliable' or 'no longer used' and the term 'Legacy' is just another way of saying that these words are not used, but we will remember them, almost as if they all died and that it is a memorial to what we created. As for word translations, the first look at the translator was utterly confusing. I felt as if I couldn't translate properly and recall what the member said. Copying and Pasting were useless. And as for "Submitting New Words"? One look at that and I think my brain stopped working. That was the most complex thing I have seen yet. I am honestly scared to submit a new word, with the fact that I no longer have knowledge on how to use dovahzul, combined with the new dictionary and the new way words are submitted? I greatly fear many errors and do not see a point in even attempting to submit a new word. 

     As I said before, I am loyal to Paarthurnax and everything he does and I am sure that he worked hard on everything and I give him all the credit he has earned.

"Change is only good when it makes things better." -Bonnie MacFarlane from Red Dead Redemption

     Now I may be wrong on all of this. It could be that I just haven't adapted to everything because I have been away for so long, and that I am clinging on to a dead past. But I hope you all can understand my point of view that I am making. I mean no one harm, weither insults or indirect offensive remarks, again, I am just speaking my mind.

I hope you all will understand and hopefully agree with me. Thank you!

-Mirkrilaar

by Mirkrilaar
April 7, 2016

     First of all, as a disclaimer, I am and always will be loyal to our administrator, Paarthurnax no matter where the site may go. 

     As of 13JUL15 (July 13th, 2015), I am a Sailor in the United States Navy. When I left for boot camp, I had the uttermost confidence that Paarthurnax would hire someone else to help deal with all of the submissions and work around the site. When he chose Liis as a moderator, I was surprised, but not disappointed. I have put in a good word for DKZ because of what he has done to help me behind the curtains. Revealing a couple of glitches are some good examples. As for Liis being a Moderator, I have absolutely no problem with it! He's doing a great job!

    The first thing that I notice once I got back on this site was obvious: The Background. The previous background that we've had has a good balance between black and white, and color. The background was dull enough that it did not take your attention away from the work you were doing and it was also colorful enough so that it looked pleasing to the eye. As of the current background, I feel that it had more color and grabs more attention than the one that we had previously. On top of that, I actually had to look up what the artwork was. I never was a fan of concept artwork, when obviously, you can have images of the actual game. The new background that I have chosen for the site a couple years ago has gotten little to no attention from anyone.

http://www.twentysidedblog.com/wp-content/uploads/2014/08/Skyrim-Without-ELFX-1024x576.jpg

    I even used this artwork as the background for my G-mail account. I feel that this artwork is absolutely perfect for the site! It is dark enough to where it doesn't grab that much attention, it has enough color so that it attracts the eye and it also fits the theme of High Hrothgar, which I have always associated this site with.

     The next thing that I have noticed is that the recent ideas that the members have implemented such as Featured Words/Members aren't commonplace anymore. My conclusion is that Paarthurnax is too busy with work to have enough time to do this,  which is completely understandable! We all have lives outside the site.

     Now brings me to the topic that has fueled the most controversy: The Wall. When I graduated boot camp on 04SEP15 (Sept 4th, 2015), I bought my first smartphone and a laptop so that I could keep in touch and to be able to communicate with the site again. When I left for boot camp, I had a warm and heartfelt 'goodbye'. When I returned, there was barely a celebration that I received. That was a slightly disappointing moment, but I kept my spirits high in hopes of the future. I thought that the site would not have changed too much since I left. After all, it was only perhaps 3 months. Sadly....I was wrong. I felt as if members were hostile and cold hearted. Several people were now spamming he Wall, being disrespectful and just plain rude. The site had a different vibe to it. I felt safe on the site before I left. It was the place I could go when I was lonely and in pain. No one judged or was mean. Everyone liked you for who you were! When I felt that the site was no longer safe, I did not know where to turn. I went into a depression-like state. Seeing the chat log was very disappointing. People saying profanity as an insult, spamming and even threats. As a Moderator, I felt as though I should be respected, not as a person, but only for my rank. As a comparison, it is like saying to a police officer that 'You need to earn my respect'. That does not work! I shouldn't have to earn it, nor do I think that it should be handed to me. I got Moderator because of 9 months of hard work and this is how I am repaid? And then there was the 'revolution' attempt. Despite everyone's beliefs, (Loniizrath mostly), I am NOT "Swingy with the banhammer"! I will tell everyone the truth right here if it helps. I am more bark than bite. I have a large patience and will try my best to stop someone using words alone. Apparently, no one took me seriously and saw that I was weak. That was when I had to use force. Did I like to do it? NOT AT ALL! To be honest, I hated to do it, but I did what I had to do to try to maintain order. How I do things such as that, is I ask Paarthurnax for advice or approval. As time went on, I felt as though the site was slightly out of control. Liis, who was a great help in all of this when I was not there by the way, definitely helped try to maintain order. But sadly, Paarthurnax felt as though it was not enough. The site wore his patience thin, which made me disappointed and upset. So, as a final 'nail in the coffin', he made it a rule that the Community Wall was for "Elder Scrolls or site discussion only" and it was to be "strictly enforced". While I am loyal to him and his decisions, I do feel strongly that this was too much. Over the last few months, I have missed the site and what it used to be. I remember all of the good times that everyone had on there. For the problems? Spammers are a phase. Eventually, they will all get banned and be forced to move on. With harassment? I feel that this needs to be monitored better. As for the Wall itself, I think I speak for everyone when I say that the old Wall needs to be brought back. Do I think I am going to change minds? Not at all! I am just wanting to express my opinion on the site.

     The last topic I would like to point out, is the massive overhaul and changes to the dictionary, to the way words are reviewed and the translator. Over the last few years, I have made over 287 words to the dovahzul dictionary! I surpassed my goal of having the second most amount of words translated, (with Morovahdin being my goal). They range from Semi-Canon, all the way to Modern. The addition of the Modern dictionary was a great change for the site, as it allowed us to create far more words than there had been and to also expand the dictionary greatly, even marking the achievements of over 5,000 words, which I had the distinct honor of after submitting a word for "bubbly". However, with the new dictionary in place, the new dictionary has massively shrunk to only about 1,991 words. To me, this is confusing and greatly disappointing. I find it confusing, because of the way everything is now organized. But the greatest feeling of all for me was a disappointment. I felt as though all of my hard word, all of my words that I had created. All the time I spent trying to do them, went to waste. I'm sure that others may feel the same way that I do. Yes, the words are there, but I feel as if they are all labeled as 'unreliable' or 'no longer used' and the term 'Legacy' is just another way of saying that these words are not used, but we will remember them, almost as if they all died and that it is a memorial to what we created. As for word translations, the first look at the translator was utterly confusing. I felt as if I couldn't translate properly and recall what the member said. Copying and Pasting were useless. And as for "Submitting New Words"? One look at that and I think my brain stopped working. That was the most complex thing I have seen yet. I am honestly scared to submit a new word, with the fact that I no longer have knowledge on how to use dovahzul, combined with the new dictionary and the new way words are submitted? I greatly fear many errors and do not see a point in even attempting to submit a new word. 

     As I said before, I am loyal to Paarthurnax and everything he does and I am sure that he worked hard on everything and I give him all the credit he has earned.

"Change is only good when it makes things better." -Bonnie MacFarlane from Red Dead Redemption

     Now I may be wrong on all of this. It could be that I just haven't adapted to everything because I have been away for so long, and that I am clinging on to a dead past. But I hope you all can understand my point of view that I am making. I mean no one harm, weither insults or indirect offensive remarks, again, I am just speaking my mind.

I hope you all will understand and hopefully agree with me. Thank you!

-Mirkrilaar


DovahKiinZaan
April 7, 2016
Man, you just summed up my thoughts exactly.

And on a more positive note: about giving me a good word, I think Paarth probably thinks I'm the site drunk.
by DovahKiinZaan
April 7, 2016
Man, you just summed up my thoughts exactly.



And on a more positive note: about giving me a good word, I think Paarth probably thinks I'm the site drunk.

Loniizrath
April 7, 2016

I can agree with nearly everything here, especially the points about the background, the wall, and the dictionary.

The new background: I personally can't stand it. This site has always had a white/dark grey colour scheme, and now half the page is green. Perhaps it's symbolic of how out-of-place some of these changes are.

The chat becoming strictly on-topic was arguably a neccessary evil, but an evil nonetheless. The amount of activity on the site has drastically decreased since, and undoubtedly because of, the new rule.

Finally, the dictionary. I echo your sentiments almost to a T here. I've contributed 49 words over the span of my membership, which isn't many compared to a lot of dedicated members, but I'm proud of what I've created. Now I'm told that, even if noncanon words are allowed back in the dictionary, maybe two or three of mine will make it. It's not looking like that's going to happen, and at this point, I'm not holding my breath. The old dictionary was hardly perfect, it might just be the most flawed conlang I've ever seen, but it was something special. Three years of hard work, erased overnight. The worst part is that anyone skilled enough with the language to do anything significant with it would sooner just use canon vocab anyway. I rarely touched the "legacy" words outside of casual conversation (and this gjoktaas update isn't going to stop me from doing that either). There was no discernible reason to delete it all, except for a percieved obligation to uphold the canon on a Skyrim fansite.

by Loniizrath
April 7, 2016

I can agree with nearly everything here, especially the points about the background, the wall, and the dictionary.

The new background: I personally can't stand it. This site has always had a white/dark grey colour scheme, and now half the page is green. Perhaps it's symbolic of how out-of-place some of these changes are.

The chat becoming strictly on-topic was arguably a neccessary evil, but an evil nonetheless. The amount of activity on the site has drastically decreased since, and undoubtedly because of, the new rule.

Finally, the dictionary. I echo your sentiments almost to a T here. I've contributed 49 words over the span of my membership, which isn't many compared to a lot of dedicated members, but I'm proud of what I've created. Now I'm told that, even if noncanon words are allowed back in the dictionary, maybe two or three of mine will make it. It's not looking like that's going to happen, and at this point, I'm not holding my breath. The old dictionary was hardly perfect, it might just be the most flawed conlang I've ever seen, but it was something special. Three years of hard work, erased overnight. The worst part is that anyone skilled enough with the language to do anything significant with it would sooner just use canon vocab anyway. I rarely touched the "legacy" words outside of casual conversation (and this gjoktaas update isn't going to stop me from doing that either). There was no discernible reason to delete it all, except for a percieved obligation to uphold the canon on a Skyrim fansite.


paarthurnax
Administrator
April 7, 2016

Thanks for sharing your thoughts, Mirk.

Personally, I prefer concept art for backgrounds. It'd feel strange for me to have an in-game screenshot at that size. A screenshot would have a lot of visual noise, and JPEG compression (which big backgrounds need a lot of) is less noticeable in concept art than screenshots. I chose the background I did because I felt it was it had a refreshing look, and yeah, was symbolic of change and renewal. You can tease me for being having my head in the clouds on that one.

What happened with the Community Wall and the community as a whole over the past year was unfortunate. Even then, "it was unfortunate" is dismissive, because those events could have been prevented or at least contained with better supervision and control on my part. Letting the community run free worked (relatively) well, until it didn't. It was a slow and gradual burn, and by the time I took action it was too late to fix without drastic measure, and Thuum.org is definitely worse off for it.

Months later, with most of the troublemakers gone (and seemingly most everyone else), I'm fine with making the Community Wall open-topic again.

This is the internet, though, and you will encounter people who dislike you, annoy you, or mistreat you. Let's all figure out how we want to handle the Community Wall from this point forward with that in mind.

Lastly, with the dictionary - I'm a bit at a loss since the changes were up for debate for several months last year. Mirk, I understand you were away for most of that time and weren't able to participate. Loniizrath, you were in full support of the update. Were the changes different than what you expected? Did you feel differently about them after they had been made?

Our differences may come from our perspectives of the site. I see the site as a language resource first. Ten years from now when we're all gone, some poor kid named Dovahkiin will search for the meaning of his name and this site will be here to give him a definitive answer, and that'll be a success in my books.

For everyone else, though, the language was the community. Who cares what the linguists and the lore snobs think if we're all having fun? Unfortunately, for me, reviewing submissions and editing words stopped being fun after a while. Yeah, the new dictionary has lots of detail. Yeah, the old dictionary is still there, but that dictionary was the lifeblood of the community, and no amount of academic babble can justify taking it from you. So I'll stop here.

What's done is done, but I'm positive we can think of new ways to get people involved. The Jarl's Word was a start to something like that. I thought it would be cool if eventually members of the community could lend their voices to it and we'd collaborate on new episodes together. Maybe that isn't the golden egg, but I'm sure it's out there somewhere.

by paarthurnax
April 7, 2016

Thanks for sharing your thoughts, Mirk.

Personally, I prefer concept art for backgrounds. It'd feel strange for me to have an in-game screenshot at that size. A screenshot would have a lot of visual noise, and JPEG compression (which big backgrounds need a lot of) is less noticeable in concept art than screenshots. I chose the background I did because I felt it was it had a refreshing look, and yeah, was symbolic of change and renewal. You can tease me for being having my head in the clouds on that one.

What happened with the Community Wall and the community as a whole over the past year was unfortunate. Even then, "it was unfortunate" is dismissive, because those events could have been prevented or at least contained with better supervision and control on my part. Letting the community run free worked (relatively) well, until it didn't. It was a slow and gradual burn, and by the time I took action it was too late to fix without drastic measure, and Thuum.org is definitely worse off for it.

Months later, with most of the troublemakers gone (and seemingly most everyone else), I'm fine with making the Community Wall open-topic again.

This is the internet, though, and you will encounter people who dislike you, annoy you, or mistreat you. Let's all figure out how we want to handle the Community Wall from this point forward with that in mind.

Lastly, with the dictionary - I'm a bit at a loss since the changes were up for debate for several months last year. Mirk, I understand you were away for most of that time and weren't able to participate. Loniizrath, you were in full support of the update. Were the changes different than what you expected? Did you feel differently about them after they had been made?

Our differences may come from our perspectives of the site. I see the site as a language resource first. Ten years from now when we're all gone, some poor kid named Dovahkiin will search for the meaning of his name and this site will be here to give him a definitive answer, and that'll be a success in my books.

For everyone else, though, the language was the community. Who cares what the linguists and the lore snobs think if we're all having fun? Unfortunately, for me, reviewing submissions and editing words stopped being fun after a while. Yeah, the new dictionary has lots of detail. Yeah, the old dictionary is still there, but that dictionary was the lifeblood of the community, and no amount of academic babble can justify taking it from you. So I'll stop here.

What's done is done, but I'm positive we can think of new ways to get people involved. The Jarl's Word was a start to something like that. I thought it would be cool if eventually members of the community could lend their voices to it and we'd collaborate on new episodes together. Maybe that isn't the golden egg, but I'm sure it's out there somewhere.


Loniizrath
April 7, 2016
paarthurnax

 Loniizrath, you were in full support of the update. Were the changes different than what you expected? Did you feel differently about them after they had been made?

Perhaps I didn't consider at the time what effects a fresh start would have on the community as a whole, instead focusing on the language itself as you did. Perhaps it's little more than nostalgia. Don't-know-what-you-have-until-it's-gone and all that. Regardless, what's done is done.

by Loniizrath
April 7, 2016
paarthurnax

 Loniizrath, you were in full support of the update. Were the changes different than what you expected? Did you feel differently about them after they had been made?

Perhaps I didn't consider at the time what effects a fresh start would have on the community as a whole, instead focusing on the language itself as you did. Perhaps it's little more than nostalgia. Don't-know-what-you-have-until-it's-gone and all that. Regardless, what's done is done.


Duryoljot
April 13, 2016

I never really realized how this impacted senior members. I thought I actually had some experience, some kind of foundation here. But after seeing the impact of all the... change that has transpired. I understand how it feels, change in a way you may not like. Every day this site feels... emptier. I've already lost contact with several dear friends during my time at Thu'um. Raxvulnax. Catjenkins. Volzah Zol. And numerous others merely trying to find their place in this community. 

So I listened to the words of Mirkrilaar, while at my old hangout, the Ban Game. I tried to start something to bring the survivors of change together, and to hopefully someday bring others as well. I began to organize a mod, based off of Mirk's own idea. I understand that he never thoguht it would take off like it did. I just hope that my work will be worthwhile, running around PMing random people and talking to a couple other good folks. It seems silly to me now. I realize now that it was a last ditch attempt, but maybe it'll be worth it. Maybe I'll be able to do what I set out to do, and bring us all a bit closer at Thu'um. It might not mean as much to me, but if it brings even a trace of the old times to your minds I consider it an accomplishment. 

My work as a writer never stops, not as long as there are still groups worth celebrating, like our little slice of melancholy grays. 

by Duryoljot
April 13, 2016

I never really realized how this impacted senior members. I thought I actually had some experience, some kind of foundation here. But after seeing the impact of all the... change that has transpired. I understand how it feels, change in a way you may not like. Every day this site feels... emptier. I've already lost contact with several dear friends during my time at Thu'um. Raxvulnax. Catjenkins. Volzah Zol. And numerous others merely trying to find their place in this community. 

So I listened to the words of Mirkrilaar, while at my old hangout, the Ban Game. I tried to start something to bring the survivors of change together, and to hopefully someday bring others as well. I began to organize a mod, based off of Mirk's own idea. I understand that he never thoguht it would take off like it did. I just hope that my work will be worthwhile, running around PMing random people and talking to a couple other good folks. It seems silly to me now. I realize now that it was a last ditch attempt, but maybe it'll be worth it. Maybe I'll be able to do what I set out to do, and bring us all a bit closer at Thu'um. It might not mean as much to me, but if it brings even a trace of the old times to your minds I consider it an accomplishment. 

My work as a writer never stops, not as long as there are still groups worth celebrating, like our little slice of melancholy grays. 

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