Mahlaansaviik

Rotte los miirney.

Good use of that word!

On topic, I think it's important to distinguish or establish that the dragon language is not "ours" in any sense, and the fan work here is exactly that - fanon/fanfiction. We simply have a unique situation in that a large number of people are participating.

At this point I am personally more against modern words than for, if only because I'd have more work to do! I also feel like we have a lot of refinement to do with the words we have already made, rather than opening the floodgates for many more words.

One thing I think a modern word canon level could do, though, is give us a better chance to "clean up" the "in-universe" language. That is, maybe a word for "president" might not feasibly exist in the dragon language. Instead of deleting it, we could relegate it to the bottom canon.

Hiith

Toxikyle

Hiith
Um, very off-topic, I know, krosis, but "miirney" is different from "eternal". "Eternal" means lasting throughout all time, but "miirney" means it's not within or bound to the laws time.

Still, words are bound by time, and do change frequently.

I understand and agree (I wasn't the one who said otherwise). But, if you think about it, the words always exist but their meanings are changing. Someone could have said "television" thousands of years ago, but it wouldn't mean anything. And it now makes sense as a word. But isn't that what we're doing to Dovahzul with modern words? We can't make an anceint Greek word for "refridgerator". Dovahzul was meant to be in the time of Skyrim, but should we consider it bound to Skyrim's time and context? That is the issue at hand.

As much as I agree with what (I think) you're saying, it's not like the beings in TES would be frozen in a technological standstill. At least, not from a realistic POV. They probably will stay put simply for something like consistency.

If we do include words for modern concepts in the site's list, I would at the very least prefer them to stem from real life languages, as if hypothetical contact was made between Earth and Nirn. For example, the aformentioned "automob" for car or "qofosah" for click from Zulu "chofosa". Also, I'd like real life people/languagfes to be shown this way, i.e. "nihonzul" or "espanyoljor" for Japanese (language) and Spanish (person) repectively.

Also, paarthy, would it be at all possible to mention the poll on the front page? This seems like something that will affect the language quite a bit, so people that don't really check out the forums should also be aware of this.

otakufreak40

Also, paarthy, would it be at all possible to mention the poll on the front page? This seems like something that will affect the language quite a bit, so people that don't really check out the forums should also be aware of this.

That's what I said.

Front-page'd.

I support the movement, as long as we can add the function to determine the canon level. This is mainly for gamers who loved the world of Keizzal and prefer a complete canon experience in the Voice. I am not so and I prefer to be able to use the Voice at my leisure, but I do understand those who prefer the canon experience. If we integrate the modern world in the lexicon, it would be great to add a new canon level, just for those who prefer canon. It makes the experience far more enjoyable.

I also respect Toxikyle's point; we are probably one of the largest communities with the Voice, if not, the largest. I do not know any other communities who put as much into the language as we do.

And Otakufreak40, you bring up a good point as to how to create new words, however, I am more supportive of the side of using current words. Think about it; the tongue is used to convey ideas and feelings, not just words. It makes sense for the Dovah to use words they know that makes sense to them to describe an abstract idea. Take "joor zah frul" for example; the Dovah lack the understanding of mortality due to their eternal lives, so the Nords use ideas that they already have at least a faint idea of in order to force them to understand mortality.

I also must thank you, Paarthurnaz, for presenting this idea and creating this community. Being so, the choice is yours, and I support your decision either way. Personally, it would work well if we want to become fluent and truely understand the Voice, then it is best that we pick up where to Dovah left off. The Dovah had to come up with words to translate the ideas that they faced and if we want to understand it, then we have to follow in kind. It will take a lot of work, but take into account the legend of the Greybeards. They spent years to master only one word of a Thu'um. We have to spend time and patience into doing the same, but with a wide variety of words. We will have to start from scratch.

Sorry about the length, but I'm sure we can find a solution, and I'm sure that we can agree.

I voted for the addition of the fourth level; I feel that we need to find a balancing point between traditional Dovahzul, and modern usage in order to achieve a greater level of usability in our world. I would love to see (one day in the future) Dovahzul meetups, where we enjoy tinvaak in the greatest tongue of them all. 

I also think canon dovahzul should be embraced, according to the wise Paarthurnax it is quite a fun language to use. The need for metaphors creates a high level of potential emphasized power of speech.

We seriously should embrace both, somehow.

VaraX

I voted for the addition of the fourth level; I feel that we need to find a balancing point between traditional Dovahzul, and modern usage in order to achieve a greater level of usability in our world. I would love to see (one day in the future) Dovahzul meetups, where we enjoy tinvaak in the greatest tongue of them all. 

I also think canon dovahzul should be embraced, according to the wise Paarthurnax it is quite a fun language to use. The need for metaphors creates a high level of potential emphasized power of speech.

We seriously should embrace both, somehow.

I agree with you, fahdon. Remember what Arengir said? His words were that the Thu'um becomes a part of us as we use it, and we become the Thu'um. We take the Thu'um to heart and we shout it into the world as one. I can see his words fitting here.

For the sake of variety, expanding into mordern words is a very good idea. As the was brought up before, Dovahzul equivalents should be modeled after other languages while still keeping the flavor the tongue has had for the entire time. Delving even further, this also allows for Dovahzul to be used more widely in roleplay (on/offline and non/text based). For me, I always welcome variety and why should the fantasy language of a widly popular video game be any different?

Lok Diiv

For the sake of variety, expanding into mordern words is a very good idea. As the was brought up before, Dovahzul equivalents should be modeled after other languages while still keeping the flavor the tongue has had for the entire time. Delving even further, this also allows for Dovahzul to be used more widely in roleplay (on/offline and non/text based). For me, I always welcome variety and why should the fantasy language of a widly popular video game be any different?

*modern, not mordern

I'm all for the fourth canon.

As for actually creating these words: I imagine words such as 'television' would come into Dovahzul the same way it came into English. Television is latin, literally meaning 'see far'. As in, we can see things far away using a television. If we English foke called it a 'seefar' it would sound odd so the latin inheritage is important. To my knowledge Dovahzul doesn't have an older language to inherit words from so I think a problem lies there. I know this might not be relevant to the context but you catch my drift.

Seems like a cool idea, im all for it :)

qobofus

I'm all for the fourth canon.

As for actually creating these words: I imagine words such as 'television' would come into Dovahzul the same way it came into English. Television is latin, literally meaning 'see far'. As in, we can see things far away using a television. If we English foke called it a 'seefar' it would sound odd so the latin inheritage is important. To my knowledge Dovahzul doesn't have an older language to inherit words from so I think a problem lies there. I know this might not be relevant to the context but you catch my drift.

It's based on Old Icelandic.

VaraX

I voted for the addition of the fourth level; I feel that we need to find a balancing point between traditional Dovahzul, and modern usage in order to achieve a greater level of usability in our world. I would love to see (one day in the future) Dovahzul meetups, where we enjoy tinvaak in the greatest tongue of them all. 

I also think canon dovahzul should be embraced, according to the wise Paarthurnax it is quite a fun language to use. The need for metaphors creates a high level of potential emphasized power of speech.

We seriously should embrace both, somehow.

I think that the idea of the fouth canon level, that's seperate from the normal dovahzul is a good idea. This way, we can use the language in our world, as you said, and if we wanted to, also stay true to the origional dovahzul. We could have the option to speak whichever one we choosed, whichever world we are speaking of. Although at the same time, dragons were not made or created in out time, so the addition of modern words may seem a little strange and funky. I can see both ways on this option.

Toxikyle

It's based on Old Icelandic.

I think qobofus is referring to in-universe. Dovahzul doesn't descend from any other language.