Thuum.org

A community for the dragon language of The Elder Scrolls V: Skyrim

Thuum.org

A community for the dragon language of The Elder Scrolls V: Skyrim

Site Update January 14, 2016  1  2 > >>  

Three Year Anniversary

January 14, 2016

Three years ago today, Thuum.org took its first breath.

The site began with two goals—to provide a dictionary for the dragon language, and to expand its vocabulary and grammar. Since then, the dictionary has accumulated over 6,000 words thanks to the contributions of hundreds of members.

At the start of 2015, we set out with the goal of providing new content and activities throughout the year. We have Forelnaar, the Dragon Name Contest, the Dovahzul Riddle Contest, the Storybook Contest, the Flag Contest, a slew of Jarl’s Bounties, and The Great Hunt to look back on. For those of you who were with us, we hope you enjoyed and learned from these events. You can look forward to more like them in the future.

Here we are in 2016, and while we aren’t perfectly attuned with the Currents of Time, there is one thing we can say for certain—2016 will be a year of change.

Dictionary Overhaul

Three years is a long time. We know a lot more about the dragon language now than we did in 2013. Our philosophy and approach towards the language have likewise changed. Four years removed from Skyrim, what should a dragon language dictionary site be? What resources should it have and what ideas should it promote?

These sorts of questions have sparked long conversations about the dictionary, the future of the site, and how to focus our efforts on Bethesda’s dragon language.

In the coming months, our current dictionary and translator will be overhauled and replaced with extensive, canon-only versions. The new dictionary will contain more information than ever before, with pronunciations, connotations, etymologies, and cited usage examples from the game. The new dictionary and translator will also better support international translations. We have been working hard on these new entries since the beginning of November, and at the time of writing, we’re excited to say that all entries are finished. Development on the new dictionary is still underway. If you’d like a preview, here’s a screenshot of the new entry page.

We cannot overstate how thankful we are for everyone who helped contribute to our current dictionary. Once the new dictionary and translator are live, the current dictionary and translator will still be available in a legacy format. They will no longer be maintained, but you can continue using them if you wish.

The decision to move away from the current dictionary was a difficult one. Its 5,500+ invented words are the result of three years of hard work from a lot of people. With all that said, we are very eager to return to Bethesda’s original language and make this huge leap forward as a language resource. There is a lot to learn and discuss, and we’re excited to share it all with you soon.

We understand that some of you may have strong feelings about this change. Please share your thoughts, questions, or concerns in the comments below and we’ll do our best to address any feedback you may have. Pruzah wundunne, and here’s to the year ahead.

-paarthurnax



Stormtrooper
January 14, 2016

Sounds fun and interesting

by Stormtrooper
January 14, 2016

Sounds fun and interesting


Redtail
January 14, 2016

Are words still going to be add to the new dictionary or are you going to keep it canon only?

by Redtail
January 14, 2016

Are words still going to be add to the new dictionary or are you going to keep it canon only?


paarthurnax
Administrator
January 14, 2016
Redtail

Are words still going to be add to the new dictionary or are you going to keep it canon only?

At least initially, it will be canon-only. We've had discussions about what word-making efforts might look like in the future, and if it happens we think it will involve a small, expert group. There'll be plenty of work to do with the canon dictionary alone, so that's what I will be focused on.

by paarthurnax
January 14, 2016
Redtail

Are words still going to be add to the new dictionary or are you going to keep it canon only?

At least initially, it will be canon-only. We've had discussions about what word-making efforts might look like in the future, and if it happens we think it will involve a small, expert group. There'll be plenty of work to do with the canon dictionary alone, so that's what I will be focused on.


Foduiiz
January 14, 2016

I support this motion.

by Foduiiz
January 14, 2016

I support this motion.


Krahvulgein
January 14, 2016
Foduiiz

I support this motion.

Same.

by Krahvulgein
January 14, 2016
Foduiiz

I support this motion.

Same.


TheFemaleCharlie
January 14, 2016

I am rather disappointed. By adding new words, we were helping bring a language to life. After all, true living languages do change and evolve over time, just as civilization has.

I for one will continue using the expanded dictionary. I feel that this move is going to send Dovahzul to death's door.

 

by TheFemaleCharlie
January 14, 2016

I am rather disappointed. By adding new words, we were helping bring a language to life. After all, true living languages do change and evolve over time, just as civilization has.

I for one will continue using the expanded dictionary. I feel that this move is going to send Dovahzul to death's door.

 


Kriidgaafthunvu
January 14, 2016

Happy birthday Thu'um!

by Kriidgaafthunvu
January 14, 2016

Happy birthday Thu'um!


Redtail
January 14, 2016

@paarthurnax ok, good luck!

by Redtail
January 14, 2016

@paarthurnax ok, good luck!


Redtail
January 15, 2016

@TheFemaleCharlie I think that was the point of add it to a archive, so people can use the expanded language. It could become its own dialect of Thu'um, which could be interesting. I agree the community aspect is very important to a language and  allowing it to change with its speakers, I am just not sure how to feel about this change. 

by Redtail
January 15, 2016

@TheFemaleCharlie I think that was the point of add it to a archive, so people can use the expanded language. It could become its own dialect of Thu'um, which could be interesting. I agree the community aspect is very important to a language and  allowing it to change with its speakers, I am just not sure how to feel about this change. 


Liis
Administrator
January 15, 2016

@TheFemaleCharlie,

The argument of a language naturally evolving comes up commonly. The simple rebuttal is that, just like the dragons themselves, the Dragon Language doesn't evolve, rather exist perpetually - everlasting and unchanging. The expanding of the dictionary was less creating words moreso discovering them, since one cannot create what has always existed.

by Liis
January 15, 2016

@TheFemaleCharlie,

The argument of a language naturally evolving comes up commonly. The simple rebuttal is that, just like the dragons themselves, the Dragon Language doesn't evolve, rather exist perpetually - everlasting and unchanging. The expanding of the dictionary was less creating words moreso discovering them, since one cannot create what has always existed.


Frinmulaar
January 15, 2016

Moreover, the previous evolution or discovery has created words like "taco" that never had any right to exist in Tamriel, and the great majority of community contributions are English in disguise. Consider this a fix to both problems.

by Frinmulaar
January 15, 2016

Moreover, the previous evolution or discovery has created words like "taco" that never had any right to exist in Tamriel, and the great majority of community contributions are English in disguise. Consider this a fix to both problems.


paarthurnax
Administrator
January 15, 2016

The practical reasons for the change are that the non-canon vocabulary severely lacks quality and consistency. A significant amount of time has been spent revising these words, and it's very difficult to learn a language whose words are constantly changing. For the people who will continue using them, there is at least the fact that they won't change moving forward.

In addition, the sheer size of the non-canon vocabulary hinders updates to the dictionary like the kind we have planned. Non-canon words were not invented with that level of detail in mind. It would take years to revise all of them to fit the new format. We weighed having thousands of low-quality, low-detail entries against highly detailed canon entries and chose the latter.

Further still, we felt the non-canon vocabulary and tools that made use of it (i.e. the Translator) harmed people's experience with the language. The non-canon vocabulary was always meant to be supplementary—to be used as needed alongside canon but never in place of it. This is oftentimes not the case, and many people don't look further than the Translator. At that point it's no longer Bethesda's dragon language, but something else entirely. We want to encourage learning and support the original language as much as possible.

I don't expect everyone to agree with the upcoming changes, but from the above I hope you can at least understand them.

by paarthurnax
January 15, 2016

The practical reasons for the change are that the non-canon vocabulary severely lacks quality and consistency. A significant amount of time has been spent revising these words, and it's very difficult to learn a language whose words are constantly changing. For the people who will continue using them, there is at least the fact that they won't change moving forward.

In addition, the sheer size of the non-canon vocabulary hinders updates to the dictionary like the kind we have planned. Non-canon words were not invented with that level of detail in mind. It would take years to revise all of them to fit the new format. We weighed having thousands of low-quality, low-detail entries against highly detailed canon entries and chose the latter.

Further still, we felt the non-canon vocabulary and tools that made use of it (i.e. the Translator) harmed people's experience with the language. The non-canon vocabulary was always meant to be supplementary—to be used as needed alongside canon but never in place of it. This is oftentimes not the case, and many people don't look further than the Translator. At that point it's no longer Bethesda's dragon language, but something else entirely. We want to encourage learning and support the original language as much as possible.

I don't expect everyone to agree with the upcoming changes, but from the above I hope you can at least understand them.


Duryoljot
January 15, 2016

This decision is likely going to forever change Dovahzul in our community.

I hope that all of us will contribute in this major transition. 

Let's all keep on shaping Thu'um into the scholar's haven.

by Duryoljot
January 15, 2016

This decision is likely going to forever change Dovahzul in our community.

I hope that all of us will contribute in this major transition. 

Let's all keep on shaping Thu'um into the scholar's haven.


Kesendeja
January 15, 2016

I for one will miss the expanded dictionary, but I understand the need for internal consistancy.

by Kesendeja
January 15, 2016

I for one will miss the expanded dictionary, but I understand the need for internal consistancy.


Toasterbot959
January 18, 2016

What about semi-canon?

by Toasterbot959
January 18, 2016

What about semi-canon?

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